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deafeninggardenerpanda · 2 years ago

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proper post on the Thing™. tws for grooming mention and nsfw mentions im sure everyone gets the drill. im kinda obligated here to make a full reply since i was involved with the issue but Hopefully there wont be another post on this matter. if anyone has issues about what i say/think i didnt address something, talk to me in private yea im more than willing to listen and exchange views. i consulted with several people to make this post in the first place

i havent been keeping up with every response under the sun but i did see opal and blue-jester and some other people in positions of responsibility apologize, so im not gonna rag on them or go on and on about "they should know better!!" because they already know that now. instead ill talk about why i did what i did and why i thought what i did

yep i called opal a groomer at one point. oops thats on me and i shouldnt have thrown around a serious term and accusation like that without getting a better grasp on the situation. lets get that out of the way

to start, how the situation played out was i got an anon saying that i was mentioned in a callout post mtthrw made.

i dont know who sent this ask and it doesnt particularly matter. i just went to go check out the post, which was public and tagged with the main tags. this was not something given to me in private which i decided to spread publicly. first of all it was still in its 242 page glory and had minors discord ids and a lot of peoples discord developer ids (the string of numbers connected to your account that you cant change) on it. i wanted to boost the post eventually, but i was aware that i shouldnt boost something with that kind of information on it, so i dm'd the person who created the doc and gave them my suggestions first (i was the reason why the doc was shortened down to 54 pages later, for example).

they said theyd keep the former doc on the post as well, but i thought they wouldve taken out the developer ids and discord ids of minors in that one too. to be honest i dont know the extent they censored on either document, i was busy talking to other people (like quakey and another adult involved in the callout doc) at this time and then the docs got taken down before i could see them again. also note that i definitely shouldve asked them to censor the names of minors In General and not just the ids, so again, sorry, thats on me. anyways continuing with the actual events that happened, i made a vaguepost warning people to block the "negative" tag if they didnt want to see drama. (unrelated but yeah, also my bad for calling it tea/drama instead of taking it more seriously. i apologized for it after getting an anon about it later.) when i made the vaguepost i got a ton of people asking what was up, so i dm'd them.

i dm'd five people in total for this, all of which except for one or two i considered friends. that said, i have no clue how many people got access to this doc directly because of the people i shared it with. i made a lot of careless and irresponsible mistakes in my handling this, and im sorry for that. but for reasons ill cover in more detail as this post goes on, i dont think the person who made the doc had malicious intent or meant to cause harm to the minors involved.

yall see all the apologizing i just did right, now its time for me to state my case on why i seriously thought opal was a groomer at the time i called her one. btw im not gonna work to cover mtthrws ass on this, thats something they can and should make a comment on on their own.

for some reason some people think that i called opal a groomer because i personally dont like them or have personal beef with them which. Dude?? no?? i dont go around calling people groomers because of petty bullshit. as i said before, i dont know how many people saw this doc itself. i dont know how many people are commenting on this based on context other people are posting only. the doc was not up for that long, so i want to make it clear the ways opal was shown acting in the screenshots provided. this is not to send harassment or to rag on her, shes since stated she will change how she deals with these matters in the future and i am aware of that.

excuse me for not having the screenshots to back my words up (or if i do the screenshots are mad compressed), or not having complete recollection of the exact parties involved. as said ofc the doc was taken down, im reciting this to the best of my recollection, but i think people who saw the doc themselves will be able to back me up on a good portion of this at least. during the magowhore saga, there were a lot of people who came up to opal with their concerns regarding her interaction with minors and the suggestive content she was posting, as shown by her posting the anon asks she got in the planet-popstar discord. both these screenshots and her (as well as some other adults in the server) reactions to them were recorded in the doc.

types of reactions she had were; saying they're just jokes; (joking about it in itself); it was magolors fault for being horny, not her*; thats just how magolors character is; there's a difference between a character and the person writing it so she doesn't need to take responsibility (second screenshot below); (when initially getting vagueposted about her irresponsibility regarding the magowhore saga) lamenting about how people who she liked or looked up to had liked the vaguepost/agreed that she was being irresponsible (first screenshot below); directing blame onto kirbypurrs; assuming people sending her asks with concerns were part of kirbypurrs' clique** and thus disregarded them; called asks with concerns hatemail; deflecting responsibility onto minors if they saw or were interacting with her content; said that people who had concerns about her interactions with minors should just block if they dont like it; being extremely aggressive about people coming up to her with concerns in general; saying that people getting on her ass for the whole magowhore saga was breaking her stride/lamenting about how all this had to happen right as she thought she was finally getting somewhere

and, while not opal saying these next things specifically, i thought these were notable enough to mention about that servers culture: there were people around her advising her to not say anything publicly and to just lie low and wait until this whole thing blew over because people would accuse her of deflecting responsibility if she just said it was magolors fault again, and people called anyone who came up to her with concerns "purity culture nuts" and that they needed to stop infantizing minors

and of course, we cant forget about the stuff in the document not concerning the magowhore saga, like talking about kinks in front of minors or knowing minors were reading/seeing suggestive stuff and letting it happen, as well occasionally talking to minors about suggestive things directly. and her knowing that there were minors in the server, some people who she was speaking to were minors, and people in the community were uncomfortable with her behavior around minors

*yeah i know magolor is her headspace buddy or something of the sort. still not remotely okay to effectively put your legs up about the whole affair because its not Really you doing it

**i got shittalked in this server too btw (by blue-jester and one other person) because ppl assumed i was part of purrs' clique. which, rude i havent spoken to or interacted with them in like 6 months. no clue why people are so rabid about purrs all the time.

with all that said, my point here is that i do not believe it was out of line in the slightest to believe that opal would not have listened to or taken peoples concerns seriously if asked directly, considering her stubbornness and aggressiveness about the situation for so long. i considered this behavior and her unwillingness to change or do whats appropriate as guilt and maliciousness by aggressive inaction, and her aggressiveness on the topic in general led me to believe she was going to continue this behavior for as long as she could get away with it. i understand why mtthrw thought this warranted a callout and needed more eyes on it for things to change. thats not to say i dont think they shouldnt have at least tried to settle this with the involved people in private beforehand, but i think people have downplayed what opal did (or at the very least, i havent seen anyone comment on the sheer extent of her stubbornness regarding this like above) in favor of getting up in arms against mtthrw for calling opal a groomer when they arent. which again, yeah yeah i know its totally fair to get upset at them for that + the leaking minors names thing, but the thing thats baffling me here is that i keep hearing people say mtthrw wanted minors to be hurt by making that doc. i think this was a callout post made with good intentions--mtthrws openness with hearing out and taking suggestions and concerns with the doc when i initially came up to them about it said a lot--but handled rather badly and needing a lot more peer review before being posted publicly.

thats really my view on this.

also for the record, since some people think this conflict is a "we need to protect the pure teenages who cant handle hearing the word 'penis' uwu" issue, its not. im not an idiot, i know people get into all that stuff before theyre properly of age all the time. its practically a teenager rite of passage, frankly id be more surprised if they didnt get into that somehow. my issue has always, always been concerns with minors and adults engaging in suggestive talk in the same space. i literally could not give less of a shit if it were two 15 or 16 year olds talking about sex together in a server of only minors. opal is a college graduate, 21+. the minors interacting with her were 15-17. the adults in that server didnt groom them, but acceptance of that behavior leaves those minors wide-open to being okay with similar scenarios with people who don't have good intentions in the future.

i myself used to consume nsfw content as young as 15. coincidently, i was also a hardcore proshipper and impressionable kid at this time, who thought they knew what they were doing and always had all the answers. i wasnt groomed or anything, but those experiences affected me. i interacted with adults in suggestive and inappropriate ways looking back at it, just like this situation. my former experiences (and the fact that some stuff the adults in that server said, such deflecting responsibility onto minors even if theyre in the same convo as adults, and calling anyone who disagreed with them purity culture nuts, closely reflects some proshipper arguments) led me to jump the gun on believing there was malicious intent from the adults in that server. so again, im sorry and take full responsibility for being so rash in my actions. i sincerely hope all involved parties learn from this and be better in the future, including myself. i've never wanted minors to be hurt from this. to people in my own discord server, i hope that my own rules regarding suggestive talk/content, even despite my server already being 17+ on its own, show that this is a topic ive always cared about and taken seriously. i do not want people to make the same mistakes i did

as ive said before, theres a line in which minors take responsibility for consuming this content. if a kid purposely lies about their age to get access to 18+ material, that's on them. if a kid is openly engaging in suggestive and innappropiate talks with adults, even as a joke, thats on the adults.

by the way, on the point of accidently hurting minors, would anyone mind filling me in on why i keep hearing people say minors will get harassed from this? i talked to like 5 people about it and literally no one had a clue. as far as i know, the two sides on this issue are "the minors were victims and the adults were at fault" and "the minors did nothing wrong because they chose to interact with the material", neither of which warrant any grievances against the minors involved. like /gen /srs if anyone knows fill me in because i am lost on why in the world people would attack the affected party

#negative #*gardening noises*#tw grooming #and before anyone says it yes i know that doc was flawed in many ways #but i thought what was there was more than damning enough #considering she also acted like stated on main #ALSO if it needed to be said. i am not mtthrws buddy or know them in any way #someone accused me of being mtthrw in private and like. no #im not even in that server and i dont have the time to make a 242 page doc #and also also if it needed to be said yeah a fucking lot of the adults in the server are at fault #im just not focusing on that because thats not mostly who the callout post was about #and jester is a whole other thing now since they confirmed theyre a minor #okay do we have our bases covered? yeah?

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vanillahub · 1 year ago

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☄❀✂❦

@honorhunt

the salty af munday meme [Accepting]

☄ Have you ever been in the middle of drama?

// In all of my years RPing here, I've managed to avoid big dramas for the most part! Thank fuck.

So, the one that did involve was mainly due to misunderstandings, from another person. This happened about 4-5 years ago, and the person in question has come clean and apologised for jumping the gun, the way they did. It's all good between us, but the incident in question has kinda of stuck in my mind.

Essentially I had responded to one of those unpopular opinions memes, and this person's former friend looked @ my post and went straight to this person, try to push the idea I was somehow vagueposting about them and their muse. And they believed their so-called friend in question.

Which I really wasn't..... At all. Things escalated for like an hour, thankfully it all ended within that night, and next to nothing hit the public dashboards. But it was still seen as an odd incident, because other rpers who knew this person better, found their reaction to my post odd (they could tell my post wasn't a jab at all at them). Then about an year later, I was reached out by this person and we both cleared things up.

read more bc iT GETS LONG LMAO

❀ What has made you completely lose your chill?

// SEE, I'm SO confrontational avoidant, it is really difficult for me to pop off in the instant something is happening. I may grow angry and develop resentment, but that only happens after the matter.

So, looking back on some of my shit experiences. I'll have to say that it for sure was back when, I had to deal with ppl who loved cherrypicking everything I said, and distort beyond belief what I was trying to communicate. I don't hide the fact I'm not native in English, and I try my HARDEST to be as clear and straightforward as possible.

BUT THAT DIDN'T STOP TO ATTRACT PEOPLE, who cannot have a rational and level-headed discussion, and have to resort to low moves with me. Why bother coming up with arguments and yknow, keep it within the realm of things we are discussing. When you can just start acting as if, you can't understand a single sentence I write?

Yes gringos, show us how you guys simply cannot communicate with us, because we may have made a small grammar mistake while talking to you in an informal setting like Discord DMs. Just make it all about the semantics, that's such a big brain move. Only native english speakers can do this, we are the pleb and must be thankful, you guys even talk to us foreigners at all. This has unfortunately happened more than once with me, and let me tell you: this shit can get under my skin so FAST. It happened with my writing, and it has happened with some of my muses portrayals as well.

I'm being clear with my statements, but people CHOOSE to misinterpret to suit their views of me. I have always been clear about what my muses are about, but people CHOOSE to run with whatever they want to believe.

✂ A fandom that you feel isn't open and accepting?

// I've been through a handful of Fandoms around here, and I'm going to say it. The RPC that's the worst one, in being the most newcommer unfriendly. That would be League of Legends. Things were already pretty bad, back when I was into it and part of that RPC. And by the looks of it, it only got progressively worse. The Arcane show, only added to that toxicity according to some of my folks, who are still in touch with that series one way or another.

You just don't hear a lot from it now, bc now there is competition for the prize of "the most toxic online community".

❦ Has someone been jealous of you?

// There could have been, and at the same time no one may have felt like that about me. Either way, I really don't care about it, I'm not dying to find that one out. And honestly? That's entirely a their problem.

I genuinely have better things to do in my day. I pity anyone who develops jealousy of others, over tumblr RP of all things.

#[ rambles ]#thank you for the ask!#honorhunt

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faunastanza · 1 month ago

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Quixate and Ellaroux Change Storgo pt 1 (no authors are credited for this, although in the desc Glip say there are four writers)

Surprisingly quick on this one, with only four months since the last. This update is unusual since it's accompanied by a rather long description. Essentially Glip talks about how they had an audience before that they didn't like and that made them not want to do art, then talks about how terrifying and uncaring minors are and how much they hurt other people. Given that their husband and people in their discord have a history of abusing and manipulating minors and Glip has repeatedly gone to bat to defend them or cover up for them, this isn't really a great look. Minors are always terrorizing and trying to get the poor adults in trouble around Glip, it's so weird!

Anyway, most of the desc is Glip vagueposting about cutting ties with some friends who demanded too much of their time. My guess is it's Pengo or the guy who wrote the Turf Tiger stories, Opa I think? I wouldn't be surprised if they broke it off with Pengo, they've had a contentious relationship for ages. As always Glip talks about how painful the update as and how many painful feelings they're processing and how the RP is painful and interacting with other characters is painful, VN is full of painful feelings, it feels like that's the case with every VN at this point. They do reveal that Ellaroux is Masked Papaya under a new name, and mention they're forking off from them which I am doubtful of. All of Glip's characters are basically self-inserts, a new name won't change that.

They mention writing some stories about Krypto but not wanting to post them. Essentially Krypto also got molested by someone, I'm not sure who, and it plays out much the same as the thing with Jupet before. Neon tried to cover it up or didn't believe her, I'm not entirely sure. It's the same trauma being rehashed though essentially. Krypto does try to break into adult spaces in the porn VN that Glip and Eevee did and you have to keep shooing her away, so that's a facet of it all as well. Not sure what to do with it but there it is.

Unsurprisingly, Glip got into drama in the RP and kicked some people out and got rid of their characters, saying that those players drained the life out of it. Again they talk about how painful it was and how they need time to process it and have to vet future players carefully to make sure they take it seriously, etc etc. RP with Glip sounds really unpleasant, even for Glip themselves. I wonder why they keep doing it...?

The most important thing though is that Glip says that after several years of not wanting to follow the plot of the comic, they've figured out a line to continue the story again! What!! I joked about Quixate's player fixing the story before but I think that actually happened lol.

We open on a scene from that porn VN I just mentioned, Cherry Kisses, with a giant goo rabbit, Papaya, and Krypto.

yes i self-inserted into my porn game, why not

Papaya says that she doesn't know what the Mask of the Sun does, but when she puts it on it solves all her problems. She puts it on and then screams at Krypto to leave, calling her a lying brat. She screams about why Krypto doesn't care that no one wants her there, and then says she wishes Krypto never existed, again saying she's a stupid hateful nasty liar. It pulls out to reveal Krypto covered with a sort of fangy angel mouth and MALwire behind Papaya. We get another page of tiresome technojargon. Does this make sense to anyone but Glip?

this is not compiling properly

What I can glean from it is that someone applies a "key" to Krypto to cut her out of reality, but the Principal interrupts and tries to reroute Krypto to Storgo, as well as hijacking the "cut" operation. If Owel is "cut", then the Mask of the Sun will have some kind of location error. Some more stuff happens, recalling someone called Refraim and seeking a connection to something or someone named Palink among them.

We cut to the Principal and dr curse talking in a greyscale location. Principal asks if this will work, and dr curse says it will, and that Andrealphus will be entirely at the Principal's mercy. Principal doesn't trust them, but says it'll work with with their "opening". TALcat appears looking fairly normal for once, accompanied by a Luneko. Krypto is also here. TALcat says that any "M4L-locked souls" need to pass key resonance tests to allow a connection. dr curse, in a different font and color, says Krypto will do the test to re-establish a connection to the outdated T4L fingerpuppet (OG TALcat). They say "'I' cannot do it without a vector."

Krypto is confused, asking why she needs to do this and what if she doesn't want to. She says if dr curse needs her to connect, then the power is in her hands to refuse or not, and dr curse can't boss her around. dr curse responds saying that MALwire doesn't need Krypto, but Krypto does need MALwire if she wants to get out of Storgo/Undertown. They emphasize "you" with quotation marks.

the luneko does not approve

Some sort of thing broadcasts a warning to Dewclaw that the continent is dissolving and that the city is not projected to last more than 25 hours from that point. Hothead appears near Masked Papaya, furious, but she distracts them with Lunekos. Hothead stops, confused, at some kind of eye thing that has Lunekos on its octopus legs.

i can always see what i pinch

Hothead notices Papaya bailed and is angry about it. Papaya then talks to another bizarre looking thing, telling it that Owel has died but not really, it sort of has and hasn't. The thing is confused by this. Papaya says that the continent needs it. Papaya says that the continent's mask broke in half and the break caused the frequency shift that's ruined a ton of stuff. LORE??? She says they need this thing's help.

The thing is surprised that the Mask of the Sun has been broken and asks how that happened. Papaya tells it to go find out, saying that it knows how. The thing says it's lost the ability to do so. Papaya is dubious, asking if it even tried, and it says it didn't bother since they knew it wouldn't work. Everything ends in pointless misery they say! Papaya again exhorts them to try, and the thing says that the tree is diseased, and that they did try to connect. Papaya asks when, and they say it was a long time ago. Papaya asks what happens, and the thing doesn't want to remember, saying it only hastens the end.

Papaya calls them a coward, then thinks for a moment and asks if it's okay to call them that. The thing says it wouldn't act to restrict their expression. It looks a lot like the thing at the end of the Egg Dream Exchange or whatever, yet another form of MAL/TAL, one of those. Papaya screams at it to try.

We cut back to Papaya and Quill in the store, with her yelling at him to stop hiding his feelings. We get an overlaid angel and Hothead. The angel i think is Quill's doppleganger, Q... Q... Quibble? [checks notes] Quarrel. Quarrel is angry about her leaving the cards on the floor, and thinking she can dictate what is and isn't effort. Hothead flippantly says it doesn't matter, Quill isn't going to say anything about it.

what's with this studio audience

Quarrel is furious about the cards, saying Quill slaved all night on those cards even though his awful roommate was being mean to him and she should pick them up. Hothead says Papaya probably would if Quarrel could get Quill to ask. Quarrel asks how he's supposed to trust that, considering all the scripts that she said she wanted that went nowhere.

As a reminder, Opa, the person behind the turf tiger stories, played Quill, and wrote several stories for Floraverse. That's going to become very relevant.

Hothead, in a different font and tone of voice, suggests that Quill call Papaya names and quit on the spot, saying it'd make her feel it "all at once" and it' d be easy to break her. Hothead continues to encourage Quarrel to make Quill tell her off in threatening tones.

my employee who wasn't very good quit... i never recovered

Quarrel is silent to that, and Hothead goes back to their normal font to say that he could just tell her what's wrong. Quarrel asks why she can't just tell, something's obviously wrong. Hothead says Papaya gets that, and Quarrel asks why Papaya doesn't ASK then, she's always telling him to do. Hothead's like idk lol.

We cut to Neon and Xenon, the sibling with the headlamp. Xenon asks how it went, and Neon says she doesn't want to talk about it. Xenon is a bit disappointed, saying they thought it'd go better after what happened with Helia. This is the first mention of Helia since the Masked Sun VN where Helia was a stand-in for Marl and it was insinuated she raped Papaya. Don't know if that's still the case though.

Neon clarifies that she couldn't get herself to say what happened. Meanwhile, Krypto is listening in another room while Xenon and Neon mumble to each other, then Neon shouts that someone (Helia?) didn't care about what happened to Krypto, which makes Krypto upset. Xenon yells at Neon about how was "she" supposed to know what happened if Neon didn't tell her. Neon retorts that she tried and said that she wanted to cut her out of her life, so Papaya chided her and sold her a rock to make them friends again.

Krypto looks more upset as Neon sarcastically says she'll thank Papaya for giving her a rock to bash in her "friend's" head. Xenon calls for Krypto and says that lunch is ready. Krypto throws a baby tantrum and says that it's her life and they're not the boss of her, she's basically an adult, she wishes they were dead and she wants to die. Some thing hanging from the ceiling says there's no escape and no hope. Krypto holds her tail close and says that TAL gave it to her and that it's hers. Neon, in her Obverse form from Circlet of the Sun (what!!), says that everything they need is in Krypto's tail.

where did YOU come from

The hanging thing grabs Krypto and they try to take the "key" out of her tail while Krypto screams at them to stop and to let her go in a way that definitely reads like a rape scene. Neobverse opens up Krypto's tail, pleased that what they need is right in there, while Krypto keeps screaming. We get another shot of Neon and Xenon this time with Krypto's tail, telling her that it's so dangerous, doesn't she understand? "We need to see what you said!" Neon says, but in a pink font for some reason. Xenon uses her long hair wires to hold Krypto while Krypto struggles and screams, then gets overlaid with the hanging thing, so we've got the real world and angel world equivalents of the same event. Krypto screams that they're hurting her.

Xenon says they need those logs, and her angel form says they need that key. Krypto yells to stop hurting her. AngelXenon says they need to see what "she" said to "her" (Krypto to someone? Someone to Krypto?) and that they need to be able to decrypt Salivent. LILY??? THEY'RE GOING TO SAVE LILY????? WHAT?????

In a different font, Neobverse says that she knew Krypto was hiding something from her, which Krypto denies. Neobverse continues, saying that her calculations made it obvious, an "unexpressed variable in the math". Krypto again screams that they're hurting her, and Neobverse is puzzled by this. We cut to normal Neon yelling "Do you WANT to die??"

krypto doesn't seem to have an angel form

We cut to weird lumpy Neopets looking thing from before, holding a strange looking cat puppet. It asks it if it'd like to beg. It says yes. It asks it to tell it what it wants.

The cat thing, sort of looking like Toxinuate a bit, says that it wants lumpy Neopet which I now realize is Kiwiface, to "just do it". Kiwiface asks for more precision. Cat thing tantrums, asking why Kiwiface won't just kill and destroy it already, what is it waiting for.

it's the eyes and color scheme that make me think of toxinuate. where is she anyway

We cut to Quixate looking teary, saying he's not sure if he's making you crazy right now. Papaya (or Ellaroux I guess) says maybe, but it's fine. Quixate weeps and asks how that's fine. Ellaroux says she's just listening to a story, nothing has to happen, they're just sitting and talking. Quixate worries about what if he's a parasite and he sucks Ellaroux dry. Ellaroux's like idk, maybe, maybe not, do you want to do that? Do I want you to do that?

Quixate keeps crying and talks about how on Valentine's day the Principal kept saying it was a wretch and asked him to kill it (the last VN). He was very confused by this. He asked Principal if it wanted to die and it said yes, which makes him feel sick. He asks why he did that, and Papaya asks it back to him.

We cut to the Principal walking around in a scribbly place with a vase full of flowers.

have we seen pen scribble world in a while, i feel like we haven't

Principal tells the plant, Rosie, that it's going mad. It asks if Rosie sees the eyes in the sky, then at her apparent agreement, says that it only sees five. It starts to cry, asking Rosie if she thinks it's dangerous, and if that's why the sky is watching it. The plant says nothing. The Principal wonders aloud why it said that to Quixate, and that it hurts. It feels like everything's its fault, and it knows Quixate would say that's not true and that makes it feel worse. It then says that Rosie sounds just like Quixate and thanks her.

They keep having a one-sided conversation, with the Principal wondering why it feels guilt, and that feeling like this makes it feel diseased and they don't want to spread it to anyone else. It thanks Rosie for listening to it regardless. Weeping again, Principal doesn't understand what Quixate told it about killing himself (their mutual suicide pact I think?) and that it would never want to hurt him.

The Principal talks about how it had a horrible vision that it thinks is the cause of it. They're in a school and handed a pile of papers to grade, then a little flying angel thing that's shown up before shows up to fawn over it.

very subtle

If you recall from Glip's description, they were frustrated by fans and people demanding their attention, which this is clearly about. So that little guy is another stand-in to vent at.

The Principal says that the little guy has three rings on his tail, and so do they, so they mentions that. It says that it feels like two of the rings are cursed, like they're to a marriage that keeps them bound to the school, not to Quixate but something else. It's disturbed greatly by this.

It goes on to talk about a lady who saw a picture of Quixate and said it was empty, because she said something at some point and Quixate laughed and said something that revealed his obliviousness. This gave her reason to mock him, it says, and it didn't do anything to stop it, which it now feels guilty about. This is clearly about some real life stupid drama, but Glip gets into so much constantly, who can say what thing specifically?

We cut to a fully-colored shot of Papaya and Eevee on a couch. Papaya says that Quill started a scene with her in the store when no one was around, and had to call red and go to the bathroom.

what layer of reality is this, cherry kisses? god only knows

Eevee- sorry, Lexy, laughs and says that she should've gone easier on Quill since it was his first time. Papaya says that wasn't it.

We cut to Papaya and Quill, with Quill yelling at her that she did nothing, and that she should have been able to tell by the way "she" acted, like everyone else could. Quill says he needs her to try and understand. Papaya goes along with it and says yes, and Quill asks her if she understands and then asks what it is she understands. She says she understands what he said. He demands she be more clear about it. She says she can't think if he's mad at her.

The greek chorus of Hothead and Quarrel show up again, with Hothead asking if Quarrel remembers making her cry. Hothead mocks her for saying "I can't think if you're mad at me", incredulous that she'd say such a thing. Quarrel says he does remember and that it hurt Quill to do this, which sobers Hothead up a bit as they remark that it was shocking.

Quill says that that isn't what they're talking about and that he thought Papaya knew that she had to make Lexy happy already, that shouldn't have even been a question. He says she's really messed up this time, and she asks why and what it was. Quill snarls at her to tell him what it is she understands. She says that she understands he has to put up with a lot from her, and she's sorry.

He screams that it's not that either, and she's like ok what then with a silly face. He says she's doing this on purpose and he's not going to play this game while Papaya turns into the Paranoia flower from Call Sign and says she can't do this again. He says he can't believe she's letting this happen again while she weeps about how she's so tired of all this. Quarrel takes over during the convo I guess to demand that she show him what she understands or he's walking away, and she begs him not to.

[quack sound]

Quarrel asks why he should put up with her after everything she's done. She says she loves him and is trying her best, and he says she keeps blaming other people for her problems. She apologizes. Quarrel goes on to say that he thought that she cared and was trying, and that he kept making excuses for her. Papaya asks what kind of excuses.

"Oh, she's going through a rough patch" "Oh she's busy right now" "Oh she doesn't really mean that" Quarrel lists, and Papaya crawls on the ground in angel flower form in misery saying she was having a hard time. Quarrel's like "so you took it out on me? that's fair" and Papaya's like I didn't MEAN to ;_;

Quarrel casts doubt on how hard she tried. Now in the Euphobia form, Papaya says she did try really hard, and Quarrel asks why he never saw any of it. Papaya says that she felt like she disappointed him just by existing, and she felt disappointed in herself too, and was too disappointed to face him. Quarrel says that she can't keep blaming other people when things go wrong and she has to take responsibility. She says she's trying to now. Quarrel says it's too late. He says she's had her chance, he tried to help her and she didn't want his help, so he's not going to waste any more of his time.

boy i wonder what happened between glip and opa, it's probably not related

Papaya says she didn't think she deserved it. Quarrel says she's right, and she says sorry. He says that's not good enough anymore. He says she's pissed away her chance. She asks what she can do. He says to find someone else to leech off and throw away too, just keep doing it. She protests that she wasn't doing that, and she didn't know she was leeching. Quarrel says "mistreat them until they leave. Take their work and their devotion and their love for you and just never do anything with it."

Papaya says she couldn't. Quarrel says it's worked for her so far, letting things wither and die and giving up. Papaya wails that she didn't ask for any of this. Quarrel says he regrets knowing her, defending her, and putting himself on the line for her over and over. She doesn't know what to say to that. He says say goodbye. She asks if that'd make him happy, and he says yes, she could do one thing for him finally.

Papaya shifts into Hothead but without the hole in their bag and says that they'll do it for her. Quarrel says thanks bye, and Hothead says bye and that they're sorry they couldn't do better and that they hope he finds someone who can. Abruptly Quill screams that he can't do this anymore and calls Red. Papaya, weeping, says okay.

Quill, also weeping, takes Papaya's hand and says that he loves her over and over as she says she loves him too. She says sorry for him seeing her as she is, and he apologizes for not being there for her at her lowest. She says it feels nice to know that he cares, and he says that he doesn't regret anything and doesn't blame her for anything, and she says that she treasures him.

just ignore everything that just happened, it's fine

Quill says that they can talk about anything, and that he doesn't care about the projects that never went all the way, he had fun working on them with her, and she responds with "I love that you're telling me these things" which is a weird thing to say. He says he's looking forward to defending her with his announcement and that he's proud to be her friend. I don't know what Opa's twitter is, I assume he posted something there but who knows. This is VERY clearly about Glip and Opa.

Papaya says she wishes she'd been a better friend and Quill tells her to shut up. She says it's been really hard, and Quill says that he knows it must have been really hard, and wonders why he didn't talk to her more. She says she really wanted to die, and he says he knows.

Hothead chimes back in over everything again to say that this is really uncomfortable. Quarrel says nothing, and Hothead says "you know why". They say that Papaya REALLY trusted those words and worked them into her being, and then they didn't mean anything. They remember Papaya melting when Quill waxed poetic about everything and then hadn't said a word to Jewel, who was Opa's ex-wife if I recall. By the way I think Opa and Glip were dating at one point, which I'm assuming isn't a surprise.

We cut to Hothead and Papaya arguing. Hothead yells at Papaya why they aren't going to tell "them", and Papaya tells them to keep their voice down, which makes them angrier. They accuse Papaya of trying to control how they express themselves, and then lumpy Kiwiface I think comes out of a door nearby. Hothead is pleased but Papaya is not. Kiwiface asks if there's an issue they should be aware of, and Hothead says there are plenty. Papaya says this isn't what they were going to talk about and has nothing to do with the issue.

this thing keeps showing up, is it TAL, what's going on with it

Hothead asks if she thinks it'll do anyone any good to hold back on all this. We get a shot of Beleth with the Mask of the Sun talking to a little bobblyhead about a war machine. They say that every cog in the war machine isn't aware of what it's doing and thus thinks its blameless... I think, some of the text is obscured with pink symbols.

hey, beleth

Beleth says some more partially redacted things, about addressing the cogs about what they're doing and the cogs making excuses for their behavior because they're cogs. This is about canceling I'm almost positive. Don't bother expecting it to [blank], Beleth says, all it learns is how to hide what it's doing. [Blank]. It won't [blank], not for you, not while it's a servant of war.

Hothead screams that privacy is one thing and this is another. Papaya laments that she doesn't see what that has to do with the situation though. Hothead yells that it's because Papaya isn't listening to them about THE CONNECTION.

We cut to the Principal looking at some more eyes in the sky. There are seven of them now. Weird looking Kiwiface asks a dogface Static for a report.

am i lumpy enough, you'd tell me right

It repeats some of the technobabble we got before, although it does address Kiwiface as the Bibliotechnician, which is another way of referring to a Librarian... is this the Librarian that's been mentioned a few times now... I'm not sure what that means if so. I remember Papaya erasing it but it seems to be here now, so. Essentially Principal is watching some people, still trying to recall Refraim, connect with Palink, and is seeking routing through Krypo. Also undergoing Pulse, whatever that is.

that's just how i feel! i'm also sighing!

It keeps going on, saying Principal is Harmonizing with Sunbe, who plays Shizukan I think, is undergoing another pulse (2) this time, connecting to some kind of fangy mouth, then disconnects Arcus from Owel and starts dissolving the Owel Barrier. Kiwiface sighs, looking a lot like a Victreebell.

We cut to the Principal running after some thing that looks vaguely like Shizukan, who refers to it as "dream", saying they're making paths and to ask it. Principal asks what the flourescent speck is connecting them to, with a shot of a notebook with two dots on it, one blue and one pink. Some pink looking thing appears to ask how the stars still bind us. Principal asks when they make use of the cage, as a pink line points out the bird cage in its hand.

how do you feel about rhetorical questions

Pink thing overlaps a panel with Shizukan and dr curse, asking what to do when the sick want no cure. Principal, facing off against some kind of jawed thing, asks who defines what is sickness. There's a panel of Shizukan screaming and the pink thing asks how does it know that it's hurting. Principal and Quixate cry at each other as Principal asks "when do you feel yourself reflected?"

Pink thing, now looking like a caterpillar, asks what it means to become a shrine while there's a shot of some new dog thing looking at that weird version of Shizukan that vored dr curse that one time.

i'm a glow worm... wait i bet i actually am based on a glow worm

Principal asks vaguely shizukan looking thing with a cat face "what does the path there look like". Pink thing asks what's the heart of wisdom. Principal asks Quixate what changes while one is being watched while Shizukan looks on. Pink thing asks how it can trust that it'll still be there as Quixate stabs Principal in the throat with his proboscis. Principal asks when one would invite death while being held by someone's hands.

Pink worm asks when hate has been helpful while some little wizardy looking guy with Andre's wand looks up at five eyes. Principal asks "when is some direction better than no direction" and I am having a lot of trouble parsing what's going on in this shot.

this cake will be divine

Some kind of spider with an afro is frosting a character with rainbow goo? I have no idea what's going on here. A big overlay of some kind of white thing with a bunch of holes that might be a silhouette of Quixate prompts Pink thing to ask how they can navigate another's holes, while Principal runs along it.

A pink worm with a goofy face goes through the holes while the Principal asks where the map is.

only reliable investment in this economy is hole 😔

Pink thing asks what if care is forgotten while someone is getting eaten by something, since it's been a while since we've had vore. I can't tell who it is though. I think Kiwiface is doing the eating and I think Principal is getting eaten but it's vague. Principal asks what has replaced it.

Pink thing says negation of caring as we get a shot of Kiwiface sitting somewhere as Krypto approaches. It might be the clearest shot of Kiwiface so far.

MORE character frills Pink thing asks what things grow in the void as Quixate and Ellaroux hold hands. Principal asks "how do we observe" with a screenshot from Discord. It's from Ellaroux to Principal, yelling at him for not treating Quixate right after their whole attempted suicide thing.

different from glip's normal speech patterns? nah

Glip plays both the Principal and Ellaroux I think. Anyway, Pink thing asks how we can find what matters most to each of us as Principal looks at some flowers. Principal then asks how we can unravel mistakes as he goes to that ridiculous squiggly tube thing from the last VN. Pink thing asks how we can acknowledge a poor move while Kiwiface looks down at dog Static. Principal asks what we've broken along the way with a shot of Quixate looking sad. Pink thing asks what stories do cuts tell as Papaya puts on the mask and Krypto watches.

In the black and white world, Principal sits at a picnic with vaguely Shizukan looking thing and Ms Warmheart, asking what cuts can stories prevent. Pink thing asks how we can harmonize. With its stupid manhole cover hands, Principal asks if you will counterbalance to the right. Pink thing, now more clearly a fat worm, asks what needs to change in it to help. Principal asks what it needs to honor to accept its help.

Pink thing asks if it remembers how to play, with a shot of Quixate and Principal goofing around. Principal says yes, then asks how it's changed for love. It asks if the old self celebrates the new self. Principal says yes again, and asks if it'll help it dissolve the barriers. Pink thing says yes and asks what needs to be done. Principal says "Agreeing. Thank you."

should i get these growths on my neck looked at

We cut to Quixate, talking about how he talked to Andrealphus and he's tired of warring and wants to make a world that's safe. He explains that the reason he was able to get the whole ball rolling on this peace stuff was because he loved the Principal so much that it motivated him, but the Principal didn't get it and it hurt him. Quixate goes on about his talk with Andre and basically recaps what happened last VN when Principal was a big whiny sadsack about how much it sucked. Quixate talks about how Principal is so kind and caring in a cruel world, and as a reminder Glip plays the Principal and someone they're dating plays Quixate, so.

only real difference with ellaroux is that she's a lot calmer than normal papaya

Quixate didn't want to force the Principal to talk about it if it didn't want to, but then wonders if maybe he waited too long. Quixate wonders what went wrong when he feels like they'd connected so deeply in dreams and such and wonders if he made some kind of mistakes that made the Principal not trust him. He wonders what it means that the Principal can't trust anyone, not even the person they love.

He doesn't understand why the Principal would reject a world that wants to have it. Papaya says that sounds really depressing, and that it can be hard to face a world that you've hurt, even if it'll take you. This is definitely about Glip being cancelled.

Quixate asks if Papaya has a name, and she says yes. He asks if she's willing to share, and she says she'll do it later and then looks around suspiciously. She says it feels bad to hear out loud. Glip went by PapayaKitty and PurpleKecleon for a very long time, so both those names have a lot of baggage attached to them (they did a furry cub porn story a long time ago under the PapayaKitty name), and I feel like this is about that. Quixate says he can change the shape of it and his train is like that, saying it was named Bessy, Becca, and now Monika. Just Monika.

Papaya asks Quixate to give her a name. He looks her over and calls her Ellaroux. She likes it.

(part 2)

#floraverse

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freya-rat-face · 2 months ago

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For a different record, that shit is why I'm scared to b do "community".

I'll never join Them, because they hate me openly, but the unforgiving nature of the circles I'm supposed to belong to has absolutely scared me away from them.

Being really really bad at expressing myself combined with having people jump down my throat instead of reading in good faith led to not having a very good time trying to communicate with people who are so busy trying to defend themselves that they can't help but attack each other.

One person put up a picture, right? They mentioned how manly they felt, even though their tits weren't bound

And I said something i thought was nice about it, i want to say i called their tits manly or something but this was years ago, and two people immediately hopped down my throat about how I shouldn't link tits to gender (which is true, but in context I feel should have fallen into a forgiveable offense)

And then my explanation was met with actual vitriol because how DARE I try to justify my bullshit, clearly I'm never going to improve

I deleted the comment. This is referred to as 'dirty deleting' because not wanting to be dogpiled for a mistake is a hideous sin.

Same day, someone did vaguepost a bit about not being hostile to group members who are clearly trying to be decent because they used the wrong words, and loathing bled through the walls, utter rage directed at the idea that anyone should get any slack for communicating with imperfect language.

I left that group because someone else expressed their experience (why they didn't feel like 'trans' was a good word for them despite their non-cisness) and it resonated with me...

And it was immediately deleted and posted about as being transphobic.

Okay...? It's their existence. Like if they were talking about the rule being applied to other people, "I don't think people who [whatever] count as trans because [whatever]", sure, but "I never really felt like I fit because" is a personal thing.

So it was determined that my own thoughts of my own existence was transphobic to these guys and i suck at being nice so I give up.

This was only one Facebook group.

There were autism groups, queer groups, feminist groups, communist groups, GARDENER groups. I didn't even fuck up in one of them, just so many of them (mostly white) started being titchy about a "Gangsta paradise" doormat JUST IN CASE the greenhouse in question didn't belong a Black person. They had no evidence to indicate race. They hardly bothered looking at the pretty garden area, they were all so hung up on the doormat.

One group tried to declare the linguistic appropriation of Black Slang a bannable offense (ennngh... 'kay) and included "Y'all" in their Actual Ass List (excuse the fuck what?)

A Writers' group, right. Someone asked about details that would be different with a matriarchy. They included the part where they understood that the world wouldn't be hugely different in the grand scheme, but wanted leads on the little ways we don't really think about how the Dominant Sex thing influences us.

Cue the comments about how it's sexist to even think about a matriarchy/that a matriarchy would be inherently different from patriarchy. Some from sexists about how the world would be perfect/ruined/completely impossible even in a fantasy realm.

I had myself been building one and one of my favorite details was realizing that "she" would be a default pronoun every time you dealt with just about anyone except in certain careers, '-ess' wouldn't exist but whatever masculine version of it would, and whatever default honorifics would lean feminine.

And the post got shut down because there's nothing to discuss here, there's no difference between a matriarchy and patriarchy.

The efforts to be PC made me feel unwelcome at best and at risk of being deliberately ostracized at worst.

Like I know I'm prone to some degree of fucking up, but the online communities i was supposed to belong to were so ready to fight about the smallest shit.

And I'm cool with a lot of it. I did, eventually, learn to shut the fuck up and listen to the communities to which i don't belong. It sucked and still hurts my feelings for the shame of not knowing sooner.

Queers? Online?

I tried but after a minute, what the fuck. I'm ashamed of my earliest bigotries, how long it took me to come around to the usual pitfalls and mistakes, but...

'y'all'? I'm Tennessean goddammit.

A doormat with a fucking rap reference?

The gap between a matriarchy and a patriarchy being literally non existent?

The goddamn fuck

Autism groups with no forgiveness for misspeaking, AND the guy that came in to ask a genuine question got dogpiled for trolling with literally zero attempt to take it in good faith.

Six fucking back to back arguments about "dirty deleting", my bringing up RSD and the part where we might not want to get dogpiled maybe, was met with simultaneous arguments that they don't have this problem at all because RSD sufferers here are welcome and we accommodate them as needed, and that my emotional well-being is not their problem, and that they don't allow dog-piling, and that the people who are too sensitive to speak up just in case are better off being quiet anyway. They all claim this to be in the name of "accountability", instead of punishing the person who fucked up. It's not being unforgiving and welcoming dog-piling. It's raising awareness and a teaching moment for others.

Alrighty, good to know I should be made an example of for saying "enby" and that changing "ladies" to "women" in the olympics figure skating isn't being exclusive to enbies because the entire event always has been, and tacking us into 'women' is bullshit.

Like. We're not women, changing the term was not based on allowing non binary people, it was about correcting the tiniest sexist thing ever, because it was Men's and Ladies, not Men's and Women's. Non-binary people still have to fucking pick one. And the people in the comments weren't bitching about that, but instead that changing ladies to women was exclusive to non-binary people.

And THEN the person I was arguing with said that I should stop using the term enby, even for myself, it's belittling and rude and--

Okay fuck you. Don't want me calling you that? Sure. Me? You're gonna tell me what I can call me?

And yeah, this is terminally online stuff from terminally online people, but I don't have a community in real life. I never have. I'm not better at socializing in real life. I'm worse in real life. I can't read a room and no amount of telling me to is gonna make me magically able to do that. I'm bad at talking. I'm context blind. After this fucking long of actual effort, I have all the social skills of a fifteen year old boy.

I have a natural reaction of defending myself when I feel attacked. My manners of expressing myself outside of prose are abysmal and no, practice hasn't helped. The best I've managed is to learn that there's is no learning to do anything but shut the fuck up, which makes me feel unwelcome.

And while i could indeed use some Shutting The Fuck Up lessons, the "because everything you say is going to piss off or hurt someone" part has made me feel like it's better for everyone if I don't try.

Ultimately, the, "we have to be nice to the jackasses being led into extremism" point and "being nice to people who fucking hate me is complete bullshit" point coexist.

Leftist spaces are fucking unwelcoming.

I'm gonna stay in my kitchen and hate myself for being too scared to try harder.

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smthscoming · 5 months ago

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i've been getting some new followers because of my activity lately so i wanted to come on and say hi to you all and thanks so much for your interest in writing with me!

i feel i should mention that, according to my blog preview, i am primarily a horror-focused blog. that means that while i do occasionally write slice of life / romance focused plots, i will always want to return to horror plots. this also includes potentially triggering topics such as b0dy horror, g0re, de4th, and so on. more info on my main verses can be found in my pinned post, or you can ask me about it, but please be made aware of the direction i tend to write towards.

this is not a vaguepost about anyone in particular, but i do unfortunately have a tendency to attract indie blogs that don't read my info or rules, or don't want to work with my verses, which is quite confusing to me because i don't think i can make it any clearer, and i hope to get ahead of the various awkward situations where i realise i don't want to write with people after dming them for a bit. it's okay to unfollow me, i won't take it personally.

as a side note, i also don't do smut. that is made very clear in my rules. i don't know why smut-only blogs would follow me. you are not going to find anything here. you are not going to fix me.

#ooc ⇨ talk

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protobrieile · 10 months ago

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ok i kind went ham on this way more than i was expecting to so um. page break LOL

⬇️wrote all this first, then the above lines afterward

more vagueposting in the same vein but

wow. i dont have the words for how i am feeling and continuing to feel and i keep trying to pretend that it's something like "im losing my mind" but in fact i have literally never felt more sane about this. i have never felt so aware and understanding and like it all makes perfect sense as i do now. i have never been so able to reflect on overcoming a fear that lasted so long but i barely even registered it as such until recently. every time i have tested the waters up until this point i was immediately dealt a strong urge to completely abandon ship and immerse myself in something that i could guarantee not to remind me of it but now all of a sudden even when i expected that to happen it didn't. and then i tried it again two nights later still expecting to wake up in the morning wanting nothing to do with it and i didn't. and again today and i just think that maybe it is actually for real. maybe i actually genuinely might have possibly truly overcome my fear of falling back in and losing myself again which had been gripping me for an entire year without me even truly realizing it. and not only is that part of it weird to recognize but also it is actually entirely unfamiliar to me because i also no longer fear what i dont know. things ended up the way they did last year in part because i was so afraid of not knowing things for sure and i ultimately let that fear take over and by the time i even barely started to realize how much i had lost my sense of self i had already caused so much pain that i couldnt see because i could only focus on my own pain caused by my fears. because prior to that point i could only ever appease the parts of myself that were still insecure by not allowing myself to believe what was actually true all along. i spent years forcing myself to not even consider it and it's not that i regret because past is past and things had to go in the way that they did for reasons i may not be able to directly comprehend and they still do so but it's not about Knowing Why. it's about accepting what you know to be true and trusting in that truth and moving forward with it. i couldnt have ever possibly been healthy about this until i stopped asking Why and always waiting for something outside of myself to determine what the truth was. i had to learn to find my own answers through observation and to trust myself enough to believe that what i was seeing and the sense i was making was valid and real and Enough. and even now that i can do so i still can say there's so much i dont know and so many things that i dont know enough about to explain or define or extrapolate from but the difference is that it doesnt bother me anymore. it doesnt bother me that i dont know what any given person is thinking of me or that i dont have a concrete plan of what my life will look like. and it doesnt bother me that i dont know every single possible factor that is making it so that i can listen to my favorite band again without an immediately following adverse reaction for the first time in a year at surface and honestly the whole fucking time to be completely fucking real with you. it doesnt bother me that my entire belief system revolves around unanswerable questions and imperceivable reasoning because i trust myself. i trust in the fact that i am not and will never be in complete control of everything that makes up the concept of Myself and it doesn't bother me at all because it simply just means i have nothing to worry about. i don't have to be anxious and i don't have to be afraid of the unknown because i know that it's unknown for a reason. and that reason isnt mine to define nor is it anyone elses responsibility to do so. and even though the idea of all this isnt anything new to me, until now i would still not be able to help myself from thinking of the If Only. if only i could somehow make other people see what i see. if only other people knew what i had learned and could see things the way i see them then they wouldn't have to be anxious or afraid anymore either. but that just simply is not

something i can do. that is not something i am meant to do. if it were that easy we'd all be helping each other out in that way but it's not and there is nothing for us as individuals to do other that acknowledge that truth as such and work around it. and god ive always known that this isnt really about the band and it really isnt about him and if i go the entire rest of my life without us ever having another conversation well i would be just fine. i would still do what makes me happy and fulfilled and i would still enjoy my life and it wouldnt bother me because id still be trusting in myself and id know that thats what is meant for me. it's just the thing about it is ive known that for over a year now and ive understood that to be a potential outcome but i just dont think i can say "and ive accepted it as a possible truth" because that just isn't how the truth works. there isnt a "possible" truth, there is simply the truth. there is one string connecting through every single moment of time that can only be described as "this is how it happened" and that is what the truth is. and we as humans don't get to identify the truth until it has passed, yet we spend so much time coming up with possibilities and preparing ourselves for 1000 different outcomes of which we think the truth might look like and all 1000 of them are inaccurate because we just aren't capable of doing that kind of thing. and i could say what i said before to someone and it would be a fairly normal thing to say to anyone because we all make these kinds of claims but when you believe wholeheartedly that you arent in control of the truth it just feels like a sad excuse for a defense mechanism. "oh i'll just say it like this so he can see that im open and accepting of the future regardless of how it turns out" like sorry not sorry but that kind of thinking is what made me fall into a hole in the first place. not only was i focusing on someone else OVER myself but also. I DONT GET TO CONTROL WHAT SOMEONE ELSE THINKS!!! And once again!!! You dont need to feel bad or anxious about what other people think of you. You have to acknowledge the truth - that you can't control them - and WORK!!! WITH!!!! IT!!!!!!!

and at this point the only truth i know is this. This band was put into my life for a reason. That man was dropped in front of me. ok more like i was dropped in front of him but whatever who cares semantics. To impact my life in such a way that facilitated all the growth that got me to this point. It doesnt matter "whether it would have happened if i hadnt met him" because there is only one way things happened. There is only one string of truth threading all of these moments together. I dont need to justify my adherence to the truth with "Even if x thing happens" because literally who cares none of us can do anything about that and pretending that we are somehow capable of completely controlling things is literally the root of all conflict in this world. And there are still plenty of things i dont know. Even about this situation. Even about myself. and there are a lot of things i will never know. but i know what my favorite band is. and I know that for the first time in my entire life i can listen to them and be healthy at the same time. so that's wild

#im the type of person that says 'i dont have the words for this' and then hits tumblr paragraph character limit twice

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hyperionswrath-a · 2 years ago

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its always upsetting to see a loved RPer leave but it does seem like it might be best! i thought something might be up when you put up a DNI and started vagueposting even though it was actively against yr rules. the rpc must be crazy rn!!!

Came back to export this blog and exchange discords with some people when I saw this and felt the need to reply real quick before I log off again for good. Firstly just let me say that my rules always stated that “excessive vagueing” would get people blocked. I never did that, which I can say with confidence, so I don't think I ever acted against my own rules at any point in time. I also just gently want to clarify if I (or other people for that matter) remind their mutuals of their rules, especially if there has been an increase of disregard for said rules, it is not vagueing. Neither is venting about stressful situations or referencing something in a post or the tags that has been explained in more detail before.

Vagueing means being literally vague about another person, or reacting in a vague (and negative) way to something that happened on the dash. For example: “Some people sure know how to make you feel bad. If you’re replying to someone but our thread is not being touched for weeks, I know what to make of this and it’s not cool” or “Seeing certain people writing the same muse is giving me so much anxiety because of how I see them come off ooc” or, depending on the situation, even a “Oh yeah cool, aight I guess”

To make some examples up out from the top of my head. Vagueing also has a time component and is usually a kneejerk reaction to something that happened shortly before, rarely more than say about a day or two prior to a vague post. It’s important to me to clarify this, because confusing venting/reminding of rules with vagueing waters down the actual problem that vagueing is to the point where everyone that is being mistreated has to be compliant just so there will be no negativity on dash, ever (which, as I said before, would be sweet but again: Where there are people, there will be conflicts, it’s simply human nature).

Now as for my last and final post I made - if that is what you mean by me vagueing, again, this is not what that was. I explained why I am leaving the rpc behind and one of the reasons is some people’s behavior, yes. I did not name drop anyone because that would be an asshole thing to do right in the lane of senselessly stirring shit up, and there is nothing to be fixed or done anyway because again, I am leaving the rpc behind. Still, my mutuals deserve an explanation because not everyone is online 24/7 on tumblr.com (or shouldn’t be), and also timezones are a component. Also, again, as I said in my post, my decision has not been out of spite, or anger, but for the reasons I explained in said post including things that have cummulated over months.

I hope this puts things into perspective a little and resolves any confusion.

I can only repeat what I always said - the final fantasy rpc has always been a safe haven for me. My (recent) problems are not a reflection of everyone’s experience and I honestly hope communication will become better between writers again because this rpc deserves it.

As for other rpcs… I wish I never dipped my toes in, but that’s also in the past. Sorry I took your message and rambled away a little, but I have had very intense talks with friends about these things and I think it can only help to remind everyone seeing this that it is okay to be firm about your boundaries and rules, to vent when you need to, but that being vague as per my examples above will eventually cause problems that may not be resolved anymore.

#.x. idk if this anon was meant to stir things up or not it's hard to tell but #.x. I will give the benefit of the doubt and say that there was some honest mis-understanding of what vagueing is #.x. anyway it felt wrong to leave this unanswered but I will be gone now for realsies as my export has finished #.x. b yeah my experiences =/= everyone elses is important to take away from this along with my explanations

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dracoleopardo · 7 months ago

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ALRIGHTTT hello fellas welcome to the official ghouse response (™) where I laugh at the silliness contained in this post because BOY HOWDY a little birdie told me you’re spouting some actual bullshit and reading this made me laugh a lot SO HERE WE GO FROM THE TOP NOW: Starting at (3) because I don’t have much to say about the first 2 — anyway this “mod” you’re referring to is my fucking daughter LMAO, and she didn't “immediately” cite you, you started getting pissy because you knew it had to do with you THEN you got cited, and we did correct you, but you made it a very big deal which is how this all started. And honestly you WERE acting pathetic and childish because this entire thing sprouted from you being told to be nice LMAO (4) Why are you talking about killing yourself in a server full of minors that has a rule against heavy venting like suicide and shit? Wasn’t that your excuse to just randomly jump into my dms to start vagueposting about everything happening and then refuse to tell me like an actual child? Your response to me asking was literally “I’m not telling you” yaknow. Like a child?

(5) bridging on from that, why am I the issue exactly? Because I’m the owner? Sorry but I just run this joint I’m not going to sit down and take time away from being with my child and work to comfort this person telling me that they’re suicidal from being told to be nice and of course I’m going to joke about that because it’s a joke server who makes jokes in a joking manner. And if being told to be nice was this big of an issue for you, then I STAND BY YOU NEEDING TO GET HELP. — and I know nothing of anyone insulting you after the ban? Maybe I’m just not remembering. (6) this literally isn’t even a point, like what do you want me to say? I’m sorry, you fucked up? IDK (7) these lighthearted comments included insulting me when I got someone's number telling me something along the lines of “wow never thought you’d do it” and I’m way too tired to look rn but I 100% remember you saying shit when I vented and no matter what you shouldn’t make comments like that period. (8+9) okay cool? Sorry abt the autism LMAO like literally all the server has it too, but anyway how is it out of context when literally all the context is there like I’m talking hundreds of words back to back like? Ok. And yes, we’re going to smear you in the fandom tag because you’re a bigger creator, and we don’t want you hurting other people? Capiche? And boy howdy I’m excited about this doc LMAO (10) okay now you’re just saying we wanted you to commit LMAO and the reason we were taking it lightly is that we were a fucking payday server who drew catboys and watched shitty movies? It’s genuinely not that deep you MADE it deep by talking abt NSFW with minors and harassing my daughter, arch, and then me and not only that but pinning the blame on me right after LMAO???? Also, YOU ARE DELUSIONAL LMAOOO you aren’t “too smart for your own good” you’re a fucking abuser and mentally unwell and if you’re supposedly working this “dangerous job” the doc should really be sent to them so you’re taken off staff because you cannot be the one handling weapons I’ll tell you that much LMAOOO learn to trust yourself all you want because nobody else will and yes I’m being harsh because this mf harassed my daughter and someone I see as my kid. And started shit for no reason and ruined a perfectly nice friend group! I can be a little mean. Personal notes: super hyped for this doc! Can’t wait to see how OOC it is LMAO anyway this person is an abuser who likes to harass and talk abt NSFW to minors and be really fucking weird to people. And BOY IVE GOT MORE! Tag response: the whole panic room saying sexual things is like? We did crack down on that but of course people say sexual things as jokes but if it went too far it was CRACKED DOWN AND DELETED. AND ACTIVELY SHUNNED. And me responding to a minor like that was continuing a joke? Or if it’s the comment I think it is I was quoting moist fucking critikal so LMAOOOO AND ME HAVING A MINOR “LEAD MY CHARGE” THAT'S MY KID AND A FRIEND WHO AGREED TO HELP WITH THE SERVER WHAT “CHARGE” ARE WE TALKING ABOUT AHVSHSVAB if you think this was every purely about you that’s crazy because it was literally about like 5 people! That’s my little response and if I’m blocked after this you know I’m right so YEAH hope everyone else got a good laugh out of this just like I did, and I hope despa causes no further harm in the future! Also, the whole "wanting to move in with a minor thing" was never actually said by me. It was said by one of my friends, and it honestly made me uncomfortable. I just have a hard time telling people to stop LMAO I'm moving to Finland on my own if that's what you wanted to hear final thoughts: wowza LMAO also this is prof read by my daughter, and she wanted me to add that her being called just "a mod" was easily the highlight of her week. LMAO -- anyways i will never take this drama seriously cause bro just be nice its not that hard BGAHHABGA original doc for those curious: https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/16PizooqKvgWXSxqTZx9qjjmjxYaWD68E

I know you all are awaiting my response, and I’m grateful for your patience. There are some things I have to address here. Never wanted to put everything out there—I don’t like drama on my blog. I have a document that’s over a thousand words long, but I realized that when people have blocked me and are saying stuff in the main tag, they don’t want to listen. They just want to hurt me.

So I guess now there are things I have to clarify… it’s heavy, but I tried to keep it short. I didn’t have the energy to read everything they were saying about me so I may get things wrong. I didn’t really want to post this.

Content warnings for mental illness, suicidal ideation, mentions of abuse.

Let’s get right into it.

1. I’ve always lived with the paranoid delusion that everyone was conspiring against me, that people secretly hated me and would smear me behind my back. I passed these off as negative thoughts, anything that might’ve “confirmed” this would set it off. I’d have an episode I would have to deal with on my own. I thought that nobody would stick with me in a crisis, and I would always be thinking along the lines of, “is it all over?”

I feel liberated, now. There��s no need to fight when they’re true. I am more at peace with myself.

2. I never want to hurt anyone. Not a real level, the angst stuff is fictional pain. I am autistic—the things you’re hearing me say are the first times I’ve talked to people (other than my family) for my entire life. I always want people to go to me when I do something wrong so I can handle it and learn from my mistakes, that’s why I have my bio set to what it is.

That, and my memory is so fuzzy that I can’t remember too much from even last week. I tend to dissociate and my brain turns into mush.

3. The “minor incident” that Ghouse and the others were talking about was one of his mods saying she’d “tear people apart” and then immediately citing me as the main cause because I was “being rude.” I told her why I was taking a break, as I couldn’t handle it, this had happened before and I asked them to correct me if I was wrong—even confirming multiple times that we were just joking around because I was paranoid.

I suggested they go straight to me for future reference. I was having a mental health episode. She called me crazy and that I was overreacting, implying I was stupid. Another mod told me I was overreacting and that I was acting pathetic and childish. This made point 1 so much worse.

4. The “suicide baiting” was something I told the Panic Room server in confidence. I told them I was talking a break. Ghouse said “it wasn’t that bad but okay,” as if he were gaslighting me. He said things like this as I was sobbing alone in my room, which he was well aware of.

I have to clarify that it wasn’t baiting. Suicidal ideation has been something I’ve been dealing with since I was 9 years old. I have been abused/gaslit for more of my life than I have been safe. I never wanted to say this, but they were brushing me off at a point where I was trying to find a reason to live. I had stupidly thought that they would understand what they were doing to me if I said.

5. That was the first time I had an episode like that. To say that it was baiting is to say I was lying. Let’s play devil’s advocate here.

If I were lying for attention, why would I destroy all my relationships in a single night? Why wouldn’t I make art or something along those lines? They’re big on art.

If I wasn’t, then that would mean that I was having a few bad days and they did nothing to help me… beyond condescendingly saying that I need help. I don’t blame the minors in the server, I’m talking about Ghouse, who is older than I am by around 2 years. I told them I called 988 and it didn’t really work. He continued to tell me off.

After I was kicked I was made aware that they immediately started insulting me. Whether you believe me or not, purposely attacking someone who’s mentally ill is… too far. I hadn’t done anything to them before this incident.

6. The reasons I freaked out was because I was sad that I had unintentionally hurt people, I had started a new, dangerous job, and… well, to be honest, I was terrified.

They were making me forget that I’d been hurt. I was starting to trust them. I had been starting to look forward to tomorrow. And, I was so scared that it would all be over. I didn’t know when, just that it would be.

Now, it is.

7. I may very well have been joking around with everything while on the server, but serious topics were serious. I was never “demeaning” when Ghouse was venting about something that happened to him beyond a couple of lighthearted comments. I thought they’d have the same respect for me. Again, I had confirmed multiple times that I was joking.

8. I might not have done much wrong in the Panic Room situation, but the other things that people are saying about me? I had no idea.

That was the first time I’d ever heard of them.

In the past, my autism had gone completely unchecked. some of those things were from when I was a week into being on my first server… ever. I was 17, had no idea how to check for age or even pronouns. Never used anything but tumblr, never interacted with anyone. Never went to school or even had a job at that point. I more tried to figure out everything based off of my own experiences… which was, not good. To say the least. The things I did, in my head, I thought they were “normal.” This doesn’t make it less terrible, but I hadn’t even remembered some of the incidents until someone pointed it out. It was so mundane to me—I was a messed up child. I’m sorry for this.

8. I wasn’t the best person, I really wasn’t. I didn’t know how to “mask” my traits at that time, I was excited to be able to talk to people. I was protective over my friends (my first friends! ever!) and very clingy. I didn’t know that people held characters close to their hearts, either? (When I have a favorite, I only want to hurt them, you see)

So while the doc was deliberately taking things out of context, some of the other accusations are true, unfortunately. I will be posting my DMs between me and the people on the server in my doc.

9. I have explanations for what I’ve seen of the accusations, but I don’t really recall anything from that incident over 3 years ago… if someone had told me, or even confronted me, I’d have known what was wrong. But they didn’t, and they kept talking to me like everything was normal. I was completely unaware. This is most of the reason I thought people were plotting against me—people would be cold to me and I wouldn’t know why. The worst part is that I can’t apologize. I can’t even try to rectify anything. Some of the people in that server still played PAYDAY 2 with me, some would even reply to my DMs. I had… no idea.

I have hurt people. Unknowingly, but still. I apologize to anyone I’ve affected. Most of it was not knowing how basic social media functions worked. I hope you understand that my behavior was out of line, and that I didn’t mean for any of this to happen. Don’t defend me on that, I was entirely wrong. But… smearing me in the fandom tag instead of going to me directly means that they want to attack me. They don’t want an explanation.

All of my actions were genuine. I never intended to hurt anyone, but that’s what ended up happening. I’ll put more detail into the doc.

10. I was already going to take a break. I was already doing poorly, and the server knew this. At that point, they want me to go through with it. What else would they be saying when they do all of this? Unless I’m reading that wrong. Whatever the reason is, they don’t want to help me, they’re deliberately being malicious and they know I wasn’t baiting.

Although, I guess I have to thank them. Now, I can say that I wasn’t delusional. I can say that I was too smart for my own good. How crazy does it sound to think that everyone was just waiting to betray me? But… they were. I can begin to trust myself again, even if it’s accepting some of my “negative thoughts” as reality. I won’t be reaching out to anyone I don’t already know, and there is safety in never putting myself out there again.

Thank you to everybody who stuck around. My delusions… weren’t entirely correct. Just like how most of my former friends blocked me on sight, there were a few people who didn’t mind when I wasn’t responding. There are some people who believed in me to a point where even if all those accusations were true, they believed that I could change. That’s… something I never thought I’d hear, ever, in my life. That is a form of trust I don’t deserve, really.

So, I was wrong again. Not everyone wanted me gone. It took all of this for me to realize that there were people who loved me in the truest form of it.

As for everyone who cut me off… well, I hope you understand that because of my mental issues, I can never trust you beyond a professional level. It is for my own wellbeing, because I’m still not doing good. I will still be taking that break. The PAYDAY 2 fandom was a source of reprieve for me, and now it’s not. It wasn’t an accident that it turned out that way. All my safe spaces have been taken from me. I don’t know why the Panic Room server hated me, so I can’t provide any extra insight on that.

The truth is, I haven’t been around because I’ve been dealing with depression for a long time. I’ve been passively… yknow. Not actively. I haven’t had the energy to respond to anything on most days, I’m sorry for that :(

All of this was just the breaking point, really.

Thank you for reading. I know most people won’t, but I appreciate those who do. I won’t blame the rest of you if you all decide to leave as well, I understand that. I never made the blog for other people, I made it for myself. This whole thing will serve as a reminder that there are more important things than online spaces. Can’t get therapy because I’m broke, but I can enjoy the few things I still can… even if I’m reminded of what I’ve lost. I don’t think I’ll really be here anymore, but I will be okay.

#Unfortunate!#payday drama continues...LMAO #sorry were all giggling at this #i genuinely believe they lied abt their age because no sane adult acts like this #anyways people are dying! you can handle being told to be nice #drama tag

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gentil-minou · 3 years ago

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It does make me happy to read your takes on Adrien from the pov of a therapist. This is partially because a person I followed said they could speak on psychology because they took psych course(s?) in post-secondary yet said that Adrien's storyline was like listening to the world's smallest violin and that essentially made me question on how much "credentials" someone should have to be taken seriously. I know I don't have any but that their POV was insulting, especially if they've taken psych

So I'm kinda torn on this ask because I know anon is being complimentary towards me and what I have to say and while I am genuinely flattered I do think it's worth taking other folks' opinions into account. So yeah I guess that salter's opinion is valid and I don't want to be like they're views are wrong. Everyone is entitled to what they think.

But also, here's the biggest difference between someone who studies psychology and someone who does it clinically with real people: as a clinician we cannot let our own biases interfere with our perception of the client. In my work, I frequently come across people who have completely opposite personalities and ideals from what I have. I've come across people who if they met me in real life we would actively disdain each other. And I still see those clients. Because at the end of the day, if I let my own views interfere with my perception of them or their case I would cause legitimate and definite harm.

Let's take Chloe for example. I've made it quite obvious that I dislike Chloe, but fun fact I have clients who are Chloe. And I still treat them. If Chloe were my client, instead of focusing on how I hate her actions and how she's digging her own hole (like I mention when I talk about her as a fan) as a clinician treating her we would focus mostly on her trauma and abuse, as well as the reason why she gets into volatile relationships, with a focus on building self-esteem within herself as well as focusing on positive relationships. Never, ever, would I invalidate or tell her she's a bad person.

The fact is that anyone can understand the psychology of a character and their motives, but it's our biases that interfere with that. The person you are referring to, whoever they are, is letting their bias interfere with their analysis of Adrien. They have the knowledge, but they may not fully have empathy.

I know this probably comes across as vagueposting but I see this way to often in the fandom and how it's actually extremely invalidating. Because the reality is people can see themselves in these characters. That's why I react so strongly when someone hates on a character, because I know a lot of people, especially they kids I work with, who see themselves in the characters. So a person who thinks they are Adrien is going to feel attacked, just like how someone who identifies with Chloe is going to feel attacked when folks badmouth her (which is why I try not to do that too much).

People often forget that while the characters we talk about aren't real, the people who love them are. When someone learns how to balance unbiased psychological analysis with empathy, it's usually pretty obvious because they will be neutral and not let their own opinions interfere.

Even I'm not perfect, and still working on changing how I talk about characters. But if any one person starts claiming they're an expert in a character, then I start to doubt them because the reality is the only expert is the character/individual themselves. Everyone else, including me, is just trying to interpret and should be able to accept when they're wrong.

#i say this all knowing that i never really go into detail with gabe #but i guess if i get more backstory on him and who he was before his wife's death that might make it easier to say oh he has this or not #cause honestly i just think all his actions are a result of mishandling grief and not allowing processing #which doesnt excuse his behavior towards anyone so it's complicated #if they give me backstory i guess i'd go into it more #tbh i think i lost the thread for this ask oops sdkjfhs #miraculous ladybug #ml psychology #bushy overthinks things #ml fandom salt #asked and answered

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formulinos · 3 years ago

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i swore to myself since the fradulent voter issue i would avoid addressing too much any other possible issues in this thing because laying low is usually the best but @pierregasiy actually said in the tags of one of their posts that it was better than silence and vagueposting so i just want to make a few things clear.

1) the post was done and posted. you can't fix a broken mirror, you can try to pick the pieces together and make it as better as possible. people voiced their concerns and feelings towards it to op, who responded the way they thought it was suitable, i can't put words in people's mouths so i'm not gonna try to be presumptuous and apologise for anyone (who might even want or not want to apologise tbh). i can say for myself that i felt a bit "oh :(" and laughed a tiny bit too but didn't take too much into heart as i felt seb had gotten his plugs and all and it was a bit tongue in cheek. after i saw the complaints about it and some posts about how personal it was for people, i could see where they were coming from and why it hit some nerves and it was def something that once it sinks in, it sinks in. i don't take it personally from op but i get why people would.

2) that being said, it got too personal too quick and i think it really highlights the ability of people of actually communicating person to person. if i don't like a post around here, i try to unfollow the person, or talk to them, or talk to my friends about it to process it. there is a lot of pride on how supposedly the f1blr community is a bit more levelheaded than reddit or twitter or whatever, and i think that in some parts that's true because of the demographics of each website, but then you have people who instead of using their blogs to send people messages saying "hey, i didn't like your post. knock it off" they send it via anon, which basically cuts any possibility of a proper reply and most importantly, a conversation. during landogates i've seen a lot of shit hot takes but tbh i admire the people who talked "url to url" with each other about it and who didn't hide and were ready to take the flack.

it's even worse because when i saw discussions with tons of reblogs etc, it was just flat out argument over personal stuff like "oh you're low" "oh you want me to die" and every single post after post after post just made it bigger than necessary. you had stuff like "if seb/pierre knew you they would hate you" and christ. oh my god. to make things worse, poor lewis who didn't have nothing to do with this got mixed into the blend with some lowkey-highkey racist remarks AND people managed to lump in very sensitive family matters from op like this is the lowest of low. absolutely vile and while i know #NotEverySebFan and #NotEveryPierreFan did it, it's a proper moment for everyone to log off and delete their accounts for a second. i can't even start to discuss about how incredibly upsetting this is all happening because of a dumb competition i started but also i am completely aware this is no longer just a local thing from my blog and unfortunately i can't control further than what i already did and am doing every day because there are new issues everyday since Friday. i can only say i'm sorry and also i am aware that many are way more hurt than i am now so well. everyone copes the way they can but this is my way of saying that, as the organiser, i want nothing but distance from everyone who managed to turn this into a living hell and if i had my way then the energy we would have would be the one from the beginning of last week.

3) at last, on a personal note properly speaking, i have seen around some stuff about how the tournament sucks for this or that reasons. i think it's valid that this isn't the cup of tea for some, and i'm not gonna try to defend myself or the tournament from it, i know what my intentions were (fight off boredom, have fun, not think too deep about certain aspects of f1) and weren't (disrespect any of the drivers involved in it). while i respect people's opinions, i would like for my work in here to be respected too because i think that between organising this in several matches, creating graphics and dumb texts to go with them to make sure that this felt like an AU-y thing and make sure it has distance from reality and also making sure things were ran as fairly as possibly with all the stuff i caught and tried to make things right, i think the people who have been around enough know that this was well organised and not tacky so far. today was a major fucking hiccup of clusterfuck proportions and the fact it's the third or fourth day in a row something happens is exhausting. my friends don't know anymore how to give me support and i don't know how to talk to people and make sure everyone is heard either.

so there you go. please don't send any of the users around here who have been talking about this any further hate regardless of the side they are on, don't get racist because it's not cute, sleep on it a bit and then tomorrow if the wounds are still sore then talk about it as normal people please. my apologies to everyone who got in the way of this horrible hubris, i hope this goes without further hiccups until the end sincerely.

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jupitersmegrim · 11 days ago

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Thanks for reminding me! I added the passage in its entirety, partly because I felt (not unjustly) called out by your vaguepost, partly because my interpretation differs—at least in nuance—from yours.

Both her parents’ reactions quoted above put Elizabeth’s insistence on walking in a different light. The fact that not just Mrs Bennet finds Lizzy's idea unseemly, but also her father expects her to ride over in a carriage underlines the decision to walk through the mud as being expressly about more than exercise and seeing Jane; it's about subverting expectations. This she hints at by proclaiming

“I shall be very fit to see Jane—which is all I want.” (P&P I,7, emphasis mine)

Singling out Jane as the only person she plans to call on is simultaneously a refusal of her gesture being understood as being directed at the inevitable actual hosts.

But why does she say it? After all, her family knows all too well she barely cares for the Netherfield party. And yet she explains her refusal to comply with genteel comportment, by declaring Jane the sole recipient of her going there.

Caroline Bingle has, I believe, once again in her jealousy accidentally hit the nail on the head when she, behind closed doors, accuses Elizabeth of trying to send a message to all of them. Later in the evening, after Elizabeth has been invited to stay at Netherfield too, Miss Bingley and Mrs Hurst first denigrate Lizzy's looks. When that doesn't get the desired reaction from the gentlemen, she pivots and attacks her character:

“To walk three miles, or four miles, or five miles, or whatever it is, above her ancles in dirt, and alone, quite alone! what could she mean by it? It seems to me to shew an abominable sort of conceited independence, a most country town indifference to decorum.” (P&P I,8, emphasis mine)

We as readers may speculate whether the intended message in question is identical with what Miss Bingley imagines. But the core of it—that it's been about communicating a refusal to bow to the Netherfield party's idea of decorum—is central. The dirty petticoats are just one element; the coming alone and, as Mrs Bennet succinctly put it, “not [being] fit to be seen when [she] get[s] there” is the other.

It's about leaving nobody confused that she isn't yet another Bennet daughter seeking a pretense to spend time with the eligible bachelors at Netherfield because Elizabeth is demonstrably unfit to be seen by anyone.

We may still assume she heeded her parents’ advice and tempered her country manners by avoiding the very worst (“crossing field after field at a quick pace, jumping over stiles and springing over puddles with impatient activity”, P&P I,7). Though I would probably say less so in an attempt to save the servants labour, and more so as not to embarrass her sister in front of her admirer.

One very subtle but speaking moment in P&P that I don't think I've ever seen anyone talk about is this one:

“Yes, and her petticoat; I hope you saw her petticoat, six inches deep in mud, I am absolutely certain, and the gown which had been let down to hide it not doing its office.”

We all get caught up on the "six inches deep in mud" thing (and it is a very funny and versatile line)—but that misses the depth of the characterisation of Elizabeth that's developed in this sentence.

What Mrs. Hurst means is that Elizabeth had, at some point, been wearing her gown (this would have been morning dress) pinned up to show the bottom portion of her petticoat. This was pretty common in the very late 18th and early 19th centuries: an outer petticoat was not really considered an undergarment, but something that could be shown, at least in part. Gowns might be shorter than the petticoat; or very sheer to show a coloured petticoat; or slit up the front or sides; or entirely open in the front (called "négligée" or, racistly, "mameluke" style). A lot of petticoats were embroidered around the bottom (and sometimes in a pattern up the center as well) in a way that would be visible under these conditions. See these examples:

"Costume Parisiennes," The Ladies' Monthly Museum Vol 3 (April 1816), p. 231:

Evening Dress.—Round dress of soft white satin, made short enough to discover the muslin-petticoat underneath, which is ornamented with two full quillings of fine lace; the satindress finished at the border by four rows of scarlet velvet [...]. (see the illustration for this one here)

"London Fashions," The Repository of arts, literature, commerce, manufactures, fashions and politics (May 1, 1819), p. 304, plate 31:

A jaconic muslin petticoat, ornamented round the bottom with four rows of muslin trimming, composed of narrow welts finished with edging. Over this is an open robe, with a plain high body [...]. (description of left image above)

Ibid., no. 82 vol. 14 (Oct. 1815), p. 240, plate 22:

A cambric muslin petticoat, ornamented at the feet with a double flounce of French work, appliqued with a narrow heading of the same; the body, from the shoulder to the neck, gathered full into narrow trimming, corresponding with the heading of the flounce; a military collar, frilled with the French work; short French négligée, open in the iront, and trimmed entirely round to correspond. (description of right image above)

If Mrs. Hurst is correct, Elizabeth had either been wearing her dress pinned up anyway, or pinned it up specifically for the walk—and then, after she had arrived at Netherfield but before she had been announced, taken the pins out and let the skirt of the dress down to try to hide the dirt on her petticoat. This is an amount of forethought that suggests that she actually does care about how she looks, or about appearing tidy, or about what the party at Netherfield thinks of her.

She doesn't care enough to keep her from seeing Jane (“I shall be very fit to see Jane—which is all I want"), or enough to wish to avoid the walk (Mr. Bennet says “Is this a hint to me, Lizzy, to send for the horses?", which coming from him I think is tantamount to an engraved invitation to send for the carriage). But she cares just enough to briefly plan how best to minimise the damage, and decide to pin up her skirt before walking—or at least to take a moment to think about how she would appear to an observer, check her skirts, and take a step to improve her appearance slightly, once she had arrived.

Jennifer Ehle looks very cute and charming in the scene in the 95 version where she's walking to Netherfield and accidentally jumps in a mud puddle and looks at her skirts and shrugs like, oh well! But I don't think it's very "Elizabeth."

Elizabeth is sort of the Goldilocks of ladyhood. She doesn't have the rigid adherence to conduct-book logic that Mary has, or the sneering sophistication that the Bingley sisters have, or the impulsive, pleasure-seeking anarchic energy that Lydia has. She's neither very fashionable, nor completely without a sense of propriety, decency, or morality (whatever these words mean according to 19th-century mores). I think takes that emphasise only her wildness and distinctness from fashionable ladies, and takes that emphasise only her respectability, are both missing something.

#pride and prejudice #jane austen #textual analysis #charminglygrouped #the netherfield visit #Elizabeth Bennet #character analysis #the muddy petticoats

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shihalyfie · 3 years ago

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What went down with the DigiFes situation, from the community and translator perspective

I think the events of the last few days have gotten everyone in a huge fuss, and because everything got caught up in a lot of chaotic social media stuff, there’s been a lot of questions about what came from what and who knew what at what time. Fortunately, I happen to be:

Someone who’s a veteran in this fanbase and thus has a small handful of friends in this community, who also have their own friends

Someone who understands a little Japanese (although not as much as others in this community do) and therefore can read things in Japanese myself to some degree without needing someone else to translate it for me

So hopefully I can shed some light on what kinds of things were being discussed, and what was known and not known at what time in this fanbase with all of this.

The most important thing I want to establish is that there was no organized coalition or smear campaign. (Kind of ironic I have to say this when the topic at hand has so much to do with conspiracy theories.) I’m a veteran, I know friends who are veterans, they know other friends who are veterans but don’t know me at all. My friends usually agree with and like the same things I do, and I give them advice and assistance with my skillset when I can, and they return the favor. We pass things along through the grapevine, not through some super-secret club grapevine, just via the nature of social relationships and some Discord servers (multiple; again, not everyone knows each other). So these are my impressions of what happened, based on said grapevine.

How it all started

Konaka’s blog is long. Like, really long. Which is only natural, because he was recapping basically the entire 51 episodes of Tamers in excruciating detail, so no translator in this fanbase would be able to translate all of that and not lose their mind! So for the most part people who couldn’t read Japanese had pretty much given up on reading it (with maybe a few dedicated people using machine translation), and some people who understood Japanese would point out parts they found interesting, but for all intents and purposes it remained untranslated and not super-accessible to the mainstream. (Even the Japanese fanbase itself wasn’t super aware of the blog’s existence.)

So when that first post in May about 9/11 dropped, the people who did read Japanese started going “uh...”

At the time, the DigiFes stage reading hadn't been announced yet. So, in other words, everyone reading it only knew it as, functionally, him namedropping an alt-right YouTuber and praising his observations. The reaction from anyone reading the blog at the time was something along the lines of “disappointed and mildly concerned.” (Note the mildly.)

The posts in June about the Great Reset and the anti-vaccine sentiment were when people keeping an eye on the situation started to get really worried about how far this was going to escalate. At this point, I want to make something clear that may not be apparent to those who weren’t keeping up or who are outside the fanbase: Most of the translators and Japanese-reading people deliberately chose not to be too public about this at this time.

Why?

This is the irony surrounding the fact that said translators are now being accused of trying to further “cancel culture”: cancellation was absolutely not what anyone wanted back then! If anyone wanted to create a smear campaign, 9/11 conspiracies, the Great Reset, and anti-vaccine statements are already more than enough to make a starting case. But at the time, this was a blog that very few people (Japanese or otherwise) knew about, translating it would basically just boost its platform more than it would have had in the first place (which would be counterproductive), and -- well, let’s be real, it’s not hard to imagine that people might get reactionary over it, and people would go nuts. Was there any real benefit that would come out of that? Not really, no.

So at the most, those keeping an eye on it might have vented a bit on their personal accounts, but some even tried to self-censor with “[redacted]” or vagueposting, because this was a matter that needed to be handled with delicacy. Thus, there were “mild rumors through the grapevine” about what was going on, but those who knew were trying to hold back with restraint and mostly inform people quietly in the hopes of this not needing to become some kind of huge social media campaign.

(Also, to be a bit blunt about it, it’s really hard to be in front of someone who loves Tamers and is gushing about it and showing admiration for Konaka, knowing all of this and wanting to say something, but feeling like a jerk if you pop their bubble like “also, he’s probably an alt-right conspiracy theorist now.” Not to say that the ignorance-is-bliss concept is always a good thing, but...)

But since the blog posts in question were discussing the prospect of having his sentiments in fiction, everyone reading them was on edge anticipating what might be in store for DigiFes. The hope was that it might blow over. Hopefully, everything would be in the form of subtle themes with plausible deniability, it would all stay within the realm of “it’s not worth causing a fuss over this,” that would be the end of it, and we’d all move on with our lives.

Unfortunately, “Political Correctness is activating Cancel Culture” isn’t exactly subtle.

DigiFes and the aftermath

I think it’s too easy to assign too much responsibility to the fansub group that was indirectly responsible for breaking the news for all of this, but actually, the truth is, this would have gotten out anyway.

Even when the stream itself was going on, there were Japanese livebloggers, and there were also English speakers who caught on that something was happening with “the Tamers fighting political correctness”. Some hours later, an upload of the stream went live on YouTube, and quite a few people started watching it and caught onto what was going on. If the fansub group that released the now-infamous version hadn’t done it, I’m absolutely certain someone else would have eventually (perhaps in a different language first, but nevertheless). And even before then, information about what the hell was going on was already starting to circulate in broken and incomplete forms. That fansub solidified what was going on, and perhaps accelerated the moment the bomb dropped on everyone, but if it hadn’t been there, it would have happened much more gradually and chaotically.

On top of that, while the use of Western alt-right rhetoric (seriously, please do not try to bring the “injecting Western politics into Japanese media” argument here when all of us are asking him to take the Western politics out) meant that it went over most of the Japanese audience’s heads (hence your answer to “who approved this?”), there was at least one Japanese person who was politically savvy enough to call it out for what it was in disgust. (I’m not linking them here because I’m not dumb enough to fling them in a place where some of you trigger-happy people will go after them.) They didn’t even need to be super in-tune with Western politics to get it; they understood enough to tell that there were some pretty alarming extremist views in there. If they understood that much, it was naturally going to follow that the Western side was definitely going to become aware one way or another.

Even all that aside, at the very least, said fansub is accurate; imagine how much worse this situation would have been if someone else had taken it up and confused things further with a misleading translation, or, worse, deliberately messed with the contents. Basically, this debacle could have easily been a lot worse.

I don’t think anyone expected this to get as big as it did (as in, to the point mainstream anime reporters outside the fanbase picked up on it). There was a similar tri. reading back in 2016, but even a lot of the hardcore fanbase barely remembers it exists! These aren’t even supposed to be canon, either! But when you have that disclaimer at the front, and the contents are really like that, it was probably inevitable for it to become a social media sensation. I mean the contents...sure are a thing.

One thing I should point out about the disclaimer is that it only mentions the program itself. It doesn’t bring up the blog, and it doesn’t bring up who wrote this scenario, just the fact that the program contains alt-right rhetoric and conspiracy theories. Because it does! It’s not even technically praising or condemning the content within, it just says “we don’t agree with it”! What the group did condemn was...approaching staff about it (and especially starting a fight). Because, in the end, that’s what the disclaimer was for: a heads-up about what was in there, and an added reminder that the people translating this are just translating it for the sake of informational purposes. Or, in other words:

It was a content warning. Even without the disclaimer, there were many, many people who would have recognized the contents for what they were and been caught by it unawares, and become upset by it. There were many people who said that they were glad to have that there because it at least gave them some time to mentally prepare for what they were about to be slapped with!

It really, really was a disclaimer. When you have something that level of extremely politically charged stuff, it’s only natural to start suspecting that the translation group had an agenda (official translations tend to get this a lot when content is remotely political). But no, the translation group did their due diligence, even if their opinions were starkly opposed to what was in there.

I was not personally involved in that translation, but I’ll give you this (copy-pasted with permission, from someone who wasn’t technically involved directly in it but was privy to discussions while it was being done):

no we brought up all of those questions like the fact that Yamaki's clearly off his rocker and this isn't supposed to be taken seriously in the first place or that maybe if we're lucky he'll just sound like a fake woke boomer but no matter how you slice it the plot is about him "convincing" the unbelieving Takato and co. into rallying up against the true enemy of Political Correctness and that's just literally the alt-right playbook in a nutshell

the thing even made it to YouTube, we were basically racing against the clock

I mean I really want to say this is plausible deniability but I don’t know how you can get any less subtle than this, this is not something you can mince words

like I really wish we could pass this off as “as long as you don’t know the blog you can take this innocently as political commentary or something” but I honestly don’t think this is something you can take innocently even without context

tbh the Political Correctness part is the most cringeworthy but Yamaki’s rant about fact checkers being evil and all that is probably a lot more worrying when you think about it

tbh I’ve never felt as conflicted about what’s the right thing to do as I do now

So in other words, it was not a reckless decision to just tack on a political label; it was done after a lot of consideration about the consequences to put the label on and what people would think of it with or without context, whether there might be a glimmer of light possibility to try and pass this off as more innocuous as it was, and eventually a determination that, in the end, there was indeed alt-right rhetoric in the program, and should be labeled accordingly.

The result was that, of course, everything broke out on social media, chaos burst out, a lot of hearts were unfortunately broken, and a lot of alt-righters started invading spaces accusing people of proving him right with cancel culture. Ironically, my personal observation is that, while there were exceptions, most people in the actual fanbase did honor the requests to not harass people about it, and this may actually be the most solidarity I’ve ever seen from the Digimon fanbase in my life, which is saying a lot considering how we usually tend to be a drama magnet most of the time. The ones who were actually directly messaging him were his newfound supporters locking down on offering him “support against people trying to cancel him” (I think they were more heartbroken and upset at him than anything...), and most of the harassment came from alt-righters not even in the fanbase, namesearching and sending harassing, accusatory messages to anyone involved for as much as expressing mild dismay. (You want to talk about harassment and being attacked for having an opinion? Pot, meet kettle.)

This leads us back to the question of the blog: if you’ll remember, I just said that the fansub in question did not bring it up at all. That’s because, at the beginning, there was no intention to bring it up if it wasn’t necessary; this was not intended as a smear campaign. The warning was attached to the DigiFes program because it was about the DigiFes program. But the resulting chaos had a lot of people bring up the blog because it better contextualized what was going on, and discussion led to people looking it up themselves and posting fragments of it on social media, sometimes even using machine translate.

Ultimately, that’s the reason this document was released: it was the same reason as the fansub being released at the time it was, which was “if it hadn’t been released, the alternative was watching things get disseminated more slowly and chaotically.” I will say outright that I was one of the people who got to lay eyes on that document before it was publicly released (and even helped out with some advice here and there); it’s no secret that it was being quietly passed around as an internal memo prior to the outbreak. The original version of the document had a request to not post it on public social media because of the chaos it would cause, and while I don’t know how many people got to see it before it was released, I’m under the impression that it was enough people that I was quite surprised everyone who saw it respected that request.

Why does the document contain a ton of analysis and debunking on top of just the translations? Well, when you’re translating those blog posts, you’re technically giving it a bigger platform (which was one of the reasons it was originally considered better to not post it publicly). Since the document exists primarily to inform people, especially about why certain things that may seem innocuous actually have wider context behind them, it’s going to need to contain an analysis like that.

The summary

There were a lot of decisions involved by a lot of different people through all parts of this ordeal. I think it’s fair to criticize whether they were the right decisions in retrospect or whether certain things should have been done slightly differently (including my small role in this), but nevertheless, it was one where the risks involved were thought through and taken into account in every step of the situation, with a desire to avoid chaos, or at least prevent it from getting too much worse. When you have contents like this, a controversy honestly is inevitable -- how on earth are you going to be able to put contents like Yamaki reciting off all the typical alt-right YouTuber talking points and ending in Political Correctness activating Cancel Culture and not expect that to make a stir at some point? -- and so, in the end, this wasn’t so much a conscious attempt at stirring the pot as much as it was the dam finally breaking, and a desire to keep it from spilling over too much. Nobody coordinated this! I think everyone just really hates drama.

Knowing all the steps and thoughts that went on behind all of this, I think being reactionary or accusatory for clout is the last thing anyone involved wanted to be. Considering just how many of these steps above could have easily been made into exposure, from the posts all the way back in May and June to the internal memo document that was made to keep friends quietly informed but could have been leaked to the public with only one bad actor, there was an active, common desire among people who didn’t even know each other to try and minimize the potential damage as much as possible. When you look at the situation now, of course it looks awful and hardly like something that came out of “trying to minimize damage”, but in reality there’s only so much you can do when the contents really are like that, and I personally believe everyone involved was doing what they thought was their best option as the situation kept changing.

I can’t speak for anyone else, especially since I don’t even know most of the people involved, and I didn’t have much of a role in all of this, but I think everyone involved, myself and my friends and everyone who’d been keeping tabs on this situation for months, has been going through a lot of heartbreak and conflict over what to do next, so please understand that there was a lot of thought put into all of it, and that it really was a difficult situation no matter how you look at it.

#digimon #digimon tamers

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